**Sacha:** Welcome to the Greatness is Designed podcast, the podcast where we argue great businesses are designed. I'm your host, Sacha Alimchandani, the Managing Director of BrassRock Consulting. BrassRock Consulting is a Calgary, Alberta based firm that strictly focuses on helping companies grow or handle succession and transition planning, and we do this through management consulting and fractioanl CFO services. Our hope is that you, the listener, are able to gain some insights from what we do here at BrassRock and are able to apply it within your business.

 

What we're going to talk about today is strategy, but one specific sliver of strategy, which is sales. And we're not going to talk about, you know, call sheets or Salesforce or any of those kinds of things. What we're going to talk about is the very essence of sales and how do I build repeat customers or, in the event where there's only one transaction for customers, how do I get repeat referrals from COIs? And a lot of times people think that there's a broad answer for what for how to come up with this, but we believe the answer's really simple, and that is: getting up every day and leading with authenticity, trust, and experience. It sounds very obvious, but what we find in practice is very few people actually exhibit those qualities.

 

To take it one step further, I want to talk about an industry which has a very broad spectrum of salespeople, and that is the life insurance industry. Whenever we think about life insurance, most people are thinking of the gunslinger who's always trying to always be closing—ABC, everyone loves that acronym—and that is one way of doing it, but we don't believe that's a way that's going to build you long-lasting, repeatable customer base.

 

Who we have with us today as our guest is Dann Kepford of NexGen Financial. NexGen Financial has been around for 20 years. Dann started the business, grew it, and added on a benefits division, and earlier this year sold that benefits division and is now continuing on with the life insurance. So, 20 years, long-lasting with consistent growth. So, Dann, welcome. We appreciate you being here as our guest.

 

**Dann:** Thank you, Sacha. It's an honor and a privilege.

 

**Sacha:** So, Dann, what do you think? Am I crazy when I say the way to build repeat customer base is to lead with authenticity, trust, and experience? What are your thoughts?

 

**Dann:** You know, I think you hit the nail on the head. The bar, I think, for sales in general is set pretty low, in so much as a salesperson, if all we did is what we said we were going to do and act with a client's best interest at heart, you're going to build a good customer base and be very referable at the same time.

 

**Sacha:** And when you—like, when you started 20 years ago, were you just wired to have the client's best interest at heart, to build that authentic relationship, or did you stumble across it because you must have been influenced by these gunslingers in life insurance?

 

**Dann:** Absolutely. You know, and it is an evolution, and it was for me, because the opportunity to misinform and to put my needs first or the sales agent's needs first is—is frankly quite easy because it's such a complex industry, complex products, different language that's just not used in commonplace. So the ability to misadvise to earn extra commissions is something that unfortunately, you know, can occur. And I just—from an ethical standpoint, actually the kind of the hallmark moment for me was a sales manager, Vincent Robichaud was his name, who said to me, "Dann, at the beginning and end of the day, all that matters truly is your reputation." And I kind of took that with me. So even though I was, especially early on in my career, was largely ignorant in terms of technicalities and how everything worked, but acting with some degree of ethics and putting the client's needs first and doing what I said I was going to do went a long way toward building my practice.

 

**Sacha:** And in building your practice, you've found that these same people have been repeat customers throughout time?

 

**Dann:** Absolutely. I'd say roughly 60 to 70 percent of my business is repeat clientele or working with existing clients and/or people that they're referring me to.

 

**Sacha:** And it's all because they just trust you because of your knowledge base.

 

**Dann:** Correct. And the—you know, the constant desire to learn more and to affiliate myself with other professionals that can add value to my clients, such as tax accountants, tax lawyers, estate lawyers, what have you.

 

**Sacha:** You know, it is one of those things where experience plays a big part. You know, not to just, but when you're looking at insurance policies and the vastness of insurance policies, when you read it, the layman knows the words, but the words don't necessarily make sense, right? (laughing) So that's where you have to be a steward with a strong moral compass to make sure that these people get the right product to meet their needs, right?

 

**Dann:** 100 percent. And it's complicated for us and for people that have been in the industry a long time. It's very technical; there's all sorts of, you know, unique tax attributes we need to be familiar with, and you need to be able to communicate that to the client and their advisors. Because quite often, especially when you're dealing with the higher end of the market or high-net-worth individuals, you're dealing with their accountants, their money managers, what have you. And you need to be able to break down complex insurance jargon into benefits and easy-to-understand language, or as easy to understand as we can manufacture.

 

**Sacha:** We see it at BrassRock all the time, right? It's: you have this strategy, but you're not only explaining this strategy to the owners or working with the owners on that; you're also explaining it to their banks, to their accountants, to their lawyers. But you have to explain it in a way that they understand it. So you have to have the experience to know what the respective audience cares about in regards to that transaction, right?

 

**Dann:** Correct. And to be able to read nuance with each individual, because human beings, being proud individuals, quite often will be nodding their head as if they understand, but you can see in their eyes that they don't understand what you're saying. 100 percent. And so just adding that extra question, "Does this make sense?" or "Do you need a little more information?" helps give that person an out to say, "You know, I wasn't clear about this, this, or this. Can you add a few more details?" And that's partly that ability to just pay attention to what the client's saying or what they're not saying from an unspoken basis to try and get the best result.

 

**Sacha:** And that's probably what builds trust. Because at the end of the day, if there's a non-verbal cue that you're picking up that they don't understand, but you know it's important that they understand it, you probably take the time to explain it to ensure that they fully understand and trust you.

 

**Dann:** Well, and to take time in so much as I think as we go through life, we're presented with what I'll call "quote-unquote" opportunities where we need to make a decision—for instance, timeshare sales where you need the deal is only going to be here today. In fact, you've got another six minutes to make a decision. (laughing) And early on in my career, I decided I'd—it's just—I didn't like the feeling when I was presented with that type of situation, that type of sales pressure. So I promised myself and my clients that I would not put somebody ever in that position where they had to make a quick decision. It's best when people think about it, they can take some ownership, come up with questions, do a little bit of research, potentially get a second opinion, what have you. But to give them the ability to think and ponder on what they're about to embark into. And some people will make snap decisions, but certainly there's no pressure for them to do so.

 

**Sacha:** But you bring up a great point, because if you sort of fast-forward that person to a year down the road or two years down the road, you know, there's always people out there in people's lives who say, "Why did you do that?" and they say it in sort of a negative connotation. But if you've taken the time, if you've given the customer a chance to think about it and get clarity on what they need to understand about that product, then when someone critiques them two years down the road, it's not an issue because they fully understand why they did it.

 

**Dann:** Right. And they have the trust to call back to get any information gaps that may exist. Because quite often what is discussed today—and I'm sure it applies to your business as well—that what is discussed today may not be as present in memory a year from now as it is today. 100 percent. There's changes happen all the time, right?

 

**Dann:** And that's where just the refreshers as well as, you know, the client contact are important on an ongoing basis just to make sure that people are kind of up to speed and remember those initial conversations and the "why" as to why they did what they did.

 

**Sacha:** Right. And actually, you know, it's a great point actually speaking to experience and the authenticity, trust, and experience component, because people come to you probably because their accountant or their friend said, "Hey, you should consider life insurance." But that comment gives no understanding to the vast industry of life insurance and all the products out there and the nuances for why people do it.

 

**Dann:** It's true. And using an example of my accountant, a gentleman named Jill Moneymiguel—great accountant, works predominantly in the professional marketplace with physicians in particular—refers me to, I would say, one in three of his clients and describes me as "the nice guy but the terrible salesperson." (laughing) Because there will be no pressure exerted, and he knows that there'll be no inappropriate products recommended. My mantra—and I think this mantra is shared among other professional salespeople—is I would always recommend to the client what I would do in their shoes based on my knowledge and experience. So I say I'm not always going to be 100 percent right, but I'll never be wrong. I'll never put somebody in harm's way. And that goes a long way toward building trust and credibility.

 

**Sacha:** Exactly. And you know, and it's the thing about having that perspective is not only do you—in my opinion, not only do you lock the one sale, and it's a good sale because now you have an evangelist arguably on your side, but now you're going to get their family members, their friends, their co-workers, the firm if they have a firm. Like it just sort of snowballs from there.

 

**Dann:** Correct. And I think it's interesting because it's the long road. Like the thing about the gunslinger—I have nothing against gunslingers—but you know, the thing about that analogy is that it's always sort of piecemeal, and that path is probably more creative in the beginning. But with your path, it's a long road, but it's a sustainable road. And over the long term, you'll generate more than the gunslinger who will get fatigued, essentially, over a period of time, right?

 

**Dann:** Right. And constantly having to redo transactions and find new people to "shoot," as it were. (laughing) Yeah, exactly, right.

 

**Dann:** So as opposed to building relationships with existing clients and working with those people and their family and friends and going deeper inside them from the perspective of dealing with multiple product lines such as business insurance, personal insurance, what have you, as well as having the confidence where somebody will pick up the phone and say, "Do you know a good accountant that I could talk to?" or "I need a good banker," this type of thing. Which is one of the highest compliments that I certainly could get in my business is when somebody phones me out of the blue just to get my advice.

 

**Sacha:** You know you're trusted when that kind of stuff happens, right?

 

**Dann:** Correct. And it feels fantastic because you feel like you're making a difference and can really add to somebody's situation by being able to put a trusted person in front of them and knowing that they'll be taken care of.

 

**Sacha:** That was Dann Kepford explaining how he got value by getting up every single day focusing on authenticity, trust, and leveraging his experience. My name is Sacha Alimchandani. Thank you for listening to Greatness is Designed. If you want to listen to other episodes, go to brassrockconsulting.com/podcast or wherever you source your podcasts.